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The Thermo Diet Podcast Episode 73 - Healing Bones With Theresa and Loren

The Thermo Diet Podcast Episode 73 - Healing Bones With Theresa and Loren

In this episode of The Thermo Diet Podcast Jayton Miller sits down with Loren and Theresa to talk about bone health! They talk about how Theresa injured her arm, the basis of bone health, and tactics to heal it as fast as possible. Check it out and let us know what you think!

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Full Transcript:

Jayton Miller:
Welcome back to The Thermo Diet Podcast, I am your host Jayton Miller and today, I have on the podcast another group podcast we were actually with Theresa Piela and Loren Delacruz. Theresa actually has a shoulder injury from mountain biking, you'll hear more about that here in just a minute. But we talk about some of the preventative measures that you can take whenever it comes to bone injuries and things like that. We talk about some of the steps that you can take while you're in the process of healing from something like that. We also talk a little bit about mindset and some ways that you can come up to a situation like that with a positive mindset, some things to think about. But we'll take a deep dive into this one, so I'm super excited for you to be able to listen to it.

Jayton Miller:
And again, I just wanted to thank all of you listeners out there for listening to the podcast and being consistent. I really enjoy doing this. This is probably one of my favorite things that I get to do, so I'm really grateful for all of you out there and I hope you enjoy this episode.

Jayton Miller:
Welcome back to the Thermo Diet, I am your host Jayton Miller and today is another group podcast with Theresa and Loren. How are you guys doing today?

Theresa Piela:
Great.

Loren Delacruz:
Yeah, doing well, thanks.

Jayton Miller:
Today, one of the things that we wanted to talk about was bone health and healing in general, because if you are watching the video right now, you can see that Theresa is beat up a little bit from her biking experience. Do you mind telling them what happened and then we can go from there?

Theresa Piela:
Yes, it was definitely completely my fault. Just went down a little hill, hopped off my bike, still held on to it and then landed right on my shoulder while still holding on the bike that then fell on top of me. I crunched myself into the ground, so I'm healing a fracture and a torn rotator cuff right now. Trying to support, not only lowering inflammation, healing the bone, healing the tendons, the tissues, helping my brain recover a little bit. I think as both of you know, as all of you know whoever's listening, when any part of your body is inflamed, your brain is so much more sensitive to that.

Theresa Piela:
I've noticed even basic acts of remembering are much more difficult, even speaking is a little bit more difficult right now. Diving into everything, all things mineral related, red light, trying to find more creative ways to heal in the process, so yeah.

Jayton Miller:
Definitely, so Theresa is in the business of being a badass that's what I'm getting from this, right?

Theresa Piela:
Yeah, thanks Jayton.

Jayton Miller:
Definitely, so do you all have a basis of things that you all usually cover whenever it comes to bone health?

Loren Delacruz:
Definitely. I don't know if you want to go first Theresa, but...

Theresa Piela:
I'll let you dive in and add on what I'm experimenting with.

Loren Delacruz:
Yeah. I am personally helping my father-in-law with his osteopenia, and he's one of those guys that... This is very personal, but he's one of those gentlemen that can be pretty stubborn when it comes to listening to alternative information. It's been fun to work on this with him, because it's something that he suffers from and definitely don't want to see him progress in terms of getting to full blown osteoporosis. Osteopenia's just like the precursor to osteoporosis.

Loren Delacruz:
Yeah, I mean there's tons of stuff we can cover, but one of the things that I had to really get through to him with is, his Vitamin D supplementation. He was taking... Oh gosh, I don't know. I don't even know how many I use anymore, but a pretty big dose of Vitamin D every day. If you look at the research, at least I have a couple of papers that show that the more Vitamin D you take per day, the more bone loss you end up yielding.

Loren Delacruz:
If you know how Vitamin D works, it works to liberate calcium, not only from the intestinal tract, but also from the bones to help get it... Well, it's constantly liberating calcium, and Vitamin K is where it puts it where it needs to go. He was taking tons of Vitamin D and not really any of the other co-factors at all, not focusing. Then his diet is also, he's really particular about his diet too, so it's been difficult to try to get him to shift towards more animal foods or specific animal foods.

Loren Delacruz:
That's one thing that I think people probably assume, "Oh bone health, Vitamin D, like of course." I think that comes from, there is definitely old research that is rooted in that concept. Where, if you've ever watched Hector DeLuca speak or talk about Vitamin D, he does mention how it came to be.

Loren Delacruz:
Oh gosh, I forget the actual scientists names, but they figured out how to cure rickets by using code liver oil and then separated the vitamin, which is richer in Vitamin A and D.

Theresa Piela:
[inaudible 00:06:03] yeah.

Loren Delacruz:
Then they separated the A from the D and found that it still helped with the rickets, and this was over 100 years ago.

Theresa Piela:
Wow!

Loren Delacruz:
Yeah, so that's how they came to find out that this was a vitamin or a nutrient or a substance that's really a hormone. I think we've taken that a little far, our society of convenience and comfort has taken that a little too far. There's been some, I guess, I don't know what the concept is that I'm trying to say, but old historic I guess dogmatism.

Theresa Piela:
Yeah.

Loren Delacruz:
That we are not willing to also see or look at definitely other research that shows us it's much more complicated than this. He was super convinced that he had to take Vitamin D. He also had to take calcium, so he was taking Vitamin D and calcium. He also has, what's it called? Plaque building around his heart, so he has a little bit of calcification building around his heart.

Loren Delacruz:
When I heard that, once I had gotten to a place where I felt really comfortable with my nutrition and mineral education and working with clients and things like that, I knew what worked, what didn't, I had a conversation with him. I was like, "Perhaps this over supplementation of Vitamin D and calcium potentially could be causing some of this plaque buildup around your heart."

Loren Delacruz:
There is also more research that shows that high Vitamin D supplementation can cause atherosclerotic plaque buildup. Suffice to say, too much of a good thing is not a good thing anymore, so I've been working on him with peeling back the layers and getting him on a couple of supplements, because he is not too keen on changing his diet.

Loren Delacruz:
Of course, that's part of being a practitioner, you have to meet somebody where they're at. Really weigh the options, pros, cons like is a supplement going to help this person more at this point in time considering their current state? Than getting them to overhaul their entire diet or anything like that, because he just really wasn't willing to budge on the diet.

Loren Delacruz:
That said, there's a couple things that I've been trying to work with him on and that's one, getting Vitamin K in. Like I mentioned before, Vitamin D liberates calcium, K gets it where it needs to go, specifically K2. He's definitely not getting that and so we have him on some K drops and that seems to be going well. It's a really valuable nutrient anyway that I feel most people are deficient in.

Loren Delacruz:
There's tons of variations of Vitamin K2 as well. I heard Sally Fallon talk about this and she says that Vitamin K just having it is actually not as well absorbed as Vitamin K2 four, but Vitamin K2 seven is pretty difficult to get. It's nice when you can get a complex of Ks because you're not just getting one variation, you're getting the whole gamut. I actually really like [inaudible 00:09:45] Vitamin K complex.

Loren Delacruz:
Although I think Thorne's Vitamin K drops are also pretty good and that's expensive, but you get a lot of bang for your buck there. K, magnesium of course. I think what most people don't realize too is that, magnesium regulates Vitamin D and calcium status. If we don't have magnesium, we are going to be, excuse my word, crap out of luck. It regulates in various ways. I mean Vitamin D needs magnesium for every step of synthesis and conversion to activation I mean.

Loren Delacruz:
You not only need magnesium to synthesis Vitamin D from sun or as well as supplements, but also to activate it once you are ready to utilize that Vitamin D. There is a difference between storage D and active D and there's over 50 metabolites Vitamin D so it's really complicated. That said, magnesium is super important for the whole process. Were you going to say something, Theresa?

Theresa Piela:
Oh it just reminds me before we jumped on this call, just thinking about the context of most of us and maybe many of our listeners living very magnesium depleting lives in terms of really high stress. Maybe plant-based diets, which could be high in magnesium but maybe thrown off by a lack and even just the Vitamin K or the gut dysbiosis that is blocking our ability to make our own Vitamin K.

Theresa Piela:
As you're speaking, I'm thinking back to the younger version of myself and so many family members and friends. Where we take our bone health and basic functioning for granted until we get to a point where we realize, "Wow, this is not only complicated, but so necessary for us to understand in order to take charge of our health." I appreciate you breaking it down and stepping in to support someone who could so benefit from just a little nudge in the right direction. Maybe starting with some Gouda and then maybe some Vitamin K drops if they need a little bit more of a boost.

Loren Delacruz:
Yeah. Oh Gouda, I love Gouda and I think it's the cheese highest in Vitamin K2, is that right?

Theresa Piela:
Might be.

Loren Delacruz:
Something like that, I've heard that. Yeah, so that said, yeah I totally agree with you. Yeah, magnesium most of us are deficient. One, because we live in a very magnesium depleted environment, but two, our metabolism suck. I think there's something like 80... There was a study release, I forget which school, but it said only 88% of... Oh sorry, 12% of Americans have a healthy metabolism. I don't know how they measured this, I have yet to dive into that research. It says only 12% of Americans are metabolically healthy and the worse your metabolism is, the worse you're going to be at retaining magnesium too.

Theresa Piela:
Yeah.

Loren Delacruz:
Yeah. We have to replenish in a smart way too, because of course there's the mineral balancing aspect of that too. If you take too much magnesium without sufficient sodium or potassium, you're going to lower the others pretty significantly pretty quickly. That's why a lot of people feel pretty crappy when they take magnesium or those that do feel crappy, that's why.

Loren Delacruz:
Others though they start taking it and they're like, "Oh my God, I feel amazing. I could sleep. I'm going to the bathroom." Magnesium is really important and also is really important for... It's really important for calcium status in that regard like regulating Vitamin D. It's important for parathyroid status and it's important for calcitonin status as well.

Loren Delacruz:
Calcium is generally regulated by magnesium and Vitamin D2, and so I think a lot of people messed out on that part. They're only thinking, "Oh Vitamin D," but of course, nature is so sophisticated that if we overlook and just think compartmentally, then we're missing a lot of the points.

Loren Delacruz:
Another big one is Vitamin A, so Retinol and of course that's because it... Well, in pregnancy, that's my niche, my area of practice, Vitamin A is actually really, really important for normal growth and development and symmetry.

Theresa Piela:
Wow!

Loren Delacruz:
If we're missing Vitamin A, and when I say Vitamin A, I don't mean beta-Carotene, I mean Retinol. So preformed Vitamin A, not the precursor kind, which is beta-Carotene and that requires a lot of good metabolic health and thyroid hormone to get converted. That is really important for bone health as well.

Loren Delacruz:
If you ever come across anyone that has birth defects or running into that, hopefully not, usually birth defects come about because of Vitamin A deficiency, which regulates so many gene expressions. That's another one that is really important.

Theresa Piela:
Can I ask a question?

Loren Delacruz:
Yeah.

Theresa Piela:
In terms of asymmetry and birth defects, I'm so curious even about the idea of scoliosis and that kind of imbalance. What might be some causes there? Is that Retinol dependent too? Or is it more maybe even like heavy metal exposure that could be throwing off other minerals and causing some lopsidedness?

Theresa Piela:
I see that a lot in people, even if it's just like a minor scoliosis or a minor shift, most people are pretty crooked these days. I am trying to figure this out, how far back does this go?

Loren Delacruz:
That's a really good question. I'm not totally sure to be honest. I would assume that Vitamin A, if you know if it's coming from infancy, excuse me, and you can actually see that the baby or the infant is growing up to be a little bit sclerotic, potentially I would say that my physical therapist would probably argue that it's also has a lot to do with strength of the other muscles around the body. But there is definitely some pretty clear, this is almost impossible to control muscularly. That's really interesting, I'll have to check into that.

Theresa Piela:
Jayton, do you have an idea?

Jayton Miller:
The first thing that came to mind was the gait cycle, so just looking at your gait and seeing the actual movement and development. See, a lot of times I see scoliosis later on in people's lives, so like late adolescence, early adulthood. That's usually from a lack of proper movement in the development stages. Anywhere from when they start walking around two years old, to probably around 15, 16 is whenever I've seen it the most especially like in high school. I remember we had a few kids that developed it from middle school up into high school.

Jayton Miller:
I think for one, it's just because everybody's sitting all day, so the lack of development of certain muscles causing the imbalance in the pull of certain... Like have you all ever looked at Anatomy Trains?

Loren Delacruz:
No.

Theresa Piela:
No.

Jayton Miller:
Dr. Myers, his work is really good. If you all haven't, he has a really good interview on YouTube, Thomas Myers, which some of his stuff is woo-woo but at the same time it's extremely interesting. He talks about how there's certain muscular slings that go from for instance your right shoulder down to your left hip, and your left shoulder down to your right hip. It does the same thing from the glute to the top of the shoulder on the back side. And so if you have improper development there, you can definitely see how it would cause a twist in the spine.

Loren Delacruz:
Yeah.

Theresa Piela:
So interesting. Okay.

Loren Delacruz:
Very interesting. My physical therapist would say everyone has imbalance system where no one's structurally perfect, but I think Retinol can have a lot to do with how extreme that gets. I've heard Molly talk about this and Dr. Weston A. Price as well. I think some of his research is written to this, and I think this is actually true.

Loren Delacruz:
That when a baby is starting to get formed, there are 36 or I forget the number, but the teeth, there's a separation, a division of... I don't know what to call them, but half of them become teeth and half of them become your spine. Yeah, I just totally probably confused everyone, but...

Theresa Piela:
No, I'm excited. It sounds like a horror story, but I love it.

Loren Delacruz:
I think that's really interesting, so that division, not only to create teeth but also the spine, that has to be probably regulated by Retinol, which is the most genetically regulating nutrient in my opinion. Yeah, that's super interesting. I have to look into Dr. Thomas Myers work.

Jayton Miller:
Excellent.

Theresa Piela:
I'm glad you even brought up the Retinol, because in my healing process, that's something I haven't thought about. Yes, in terms of liver just for normal full systemic health, but that is new to me, so thank you.

Loren Delacruz:
Yeah, of course, and it's two-fold too. There's another aspect that Retinol plays into. Iron, excess iron prevents osteoblasts, which are the cells that help us regenerate bone from doing their job. They put a halt on osteoblast function or activity, and so that's really important, especially if we're constantly breaking down bone to liberate calcium, we also need to be regenerating it.

Loren Delacruz:
And so if we're taking a lot of Vitamin D, we have excess iron in our tissues like there's going to be a really big problem. What regulates iron is copper, specifically activated copper, which is called ceruloplasmin. It's a copper protein complex, and in order to activate copper the mineral into ceruloplasmin loaded into that protein you need Retinol. That's how Retinol and copper and iron can play a good role or a bad role in bone health.

Loren Delacruz:
My father-in-law is really not into organ meats or anything like that, and so I have him on desiccated beef liver pills. He's really not into dairy either unfortunately, so I have him on a little bit of pro powder as well for some calcium, just a little. Yeah, so there's a couple of things. Those are a couple of things that I would probably have someone consider if they were having bone issues, especially osteoporosis or anything like that.

Loren Delacruz:
Then there's a whole aspect of hormones and Xenoestrogens that can also play a role. I don't know if you wanted to add anything Theresa in terms of that kind of stuff.

Theresa Piela:
Yeah. Well, as you speak again I'm just thinking about my past self and it was I think 11 years ago now when I had my DEXA showing that I had severe osteoporosis. I figured it out first because I had a stress fracture and that seems like a big warning sign considering I should have been young and healthy and vital, but here I was cracking my bones. At the time the only recommendation from the doctor was just to take calcium and Ibuprofen I should add.

Theresa Piela:
Calcium and Ibuprofen and my knowledge ended there for many years until I started taking much deeper dive. Even just thinking about the bone matrix, that's something I'm learning more about right now in terms of keeping that healthy and alive and vital. I've been playing around a little bit with even just the idea of having my shoulder under a red light in addition to the diet. But making sure that other factors are also taken care of too, which again, it's more new to me than I thought.

Theresa Piela:
There's things I definitely took for granted until all of a sudden you have no choice but to dive right in but no, nothing to add to that. I think you covered a beautiful range of what's necessary just to keep our frame functioning and happy.

Jayton Miller:
Do you know what your diet looked like during that time?

Theresa Piela:
Oh my gosh, so leading up to it, standard American diet. I had always loved just white simple foods as a kid, and so very nutrient deficient. Then when the fracture happened, I was vegan and I was living out of the college cafeteria. Mostly tofu, lots of spinach because I thought it was healthy at the time. Granted, I craved it, so there again maybe was some underlying wisdom in the body trying to self-correct. Trying to get some minerals but not the absorbable kind. Lots of soy milk, Grape-Nuts were a staple, bananas and bagels probably, like the classic runner diet. At least the collegiate athlete runners diet so, so lacking in so many things.

Theresa Piela:
Even just again, thinking back to lighting exposure, I would be outside maybe for practice, but the rest of the day as a student. I was in Minnesota at the time, very, very little light aside from just the fluorescent blue lights of the library or my classes so, so many things that were out of whack and very, very high stress. I think a lot of people can relate to the lack of balance that's inherent in a lot of college living days. Things are so easily just tipped over when we take things for granted again, when we're living in ways that we're not thinking about our future self or our older self. Yeah, it's funny looking back. I'm surprised I'm still alive.

Loren Delacruz:
No, I think we've all had experiences like that, which is probably why we do what we do. Yeah, it's all about learning and growing from there and looking forward, but only backwards as educational experience.

Theresa Piela:
Yeah.

Loren Delacruz:
Yeah, you mentioned stress too, that's a huge demineralizing thing for bones, high stressful demineralized bones. I think what people don't realize too is, bones are made of way more than just calcium. They're made of potassium, magnesium, boron, manganese, silica, which is something you mentioned was really important as well. Definitely a big miss on a lot of people's parts. Phosphorous of course, sulfur, chromium, and all these trace minerals.

Loren Delacruz:
Making sure you're getting enough minerals in general and especially if you live a very stressful life, remineralizing is really important. Not only for metabolic health, but for bone health too.

Theresa Piela:
And something to add that I've enjoyed and adding back in now, but even just cooking down the chicken bones to the point where they're falling apart and really, really tender, they taste really good to me. It just feels like an easy way to get some of those minerals and without throwing off the balance of some of the overlooked minerals. That's been fun, to just think about really simple and affordable ways to support the healing process.

Loren Delacruz:
Yeah, that's super, super good.

Jayton Miller:
One of the things that Ray Peat talks about in one of his interviews, I don't know if you all got the chance to watch those. Was that, whenever he was in Mexico, whenever he started Blake College, he found out that wheat germ had a lot of the nutrients that could sustain him as far as like protein and certain vitamins and minerals and stuff like that.

Jayton Miller:
He started to eat a hefty amount of it and over time he noticed that his teeth started to decay. It was because the wheat germ is extremely high in phosphate, and so his phosphate to calcium ratio was completely out of whack. He said, once he brought down the phosphate and increased the calcium in his diet, it completely reversed the tooth decay.

Theresa Piela:
I am so glad you said that.

Loren Delacruz:
Yeah.

Theresa Piela:
I was thinking back to again, some of my vegan days. My teeth started turning gray and some of the people in that realm of healing said it was normal. That it's a part of detoxing the body, but for anyone listening, if your teeth are turning gray, definitely not normal. It's maybe the first sign that your whole structure is demineralizing so something to look into.

Jayton Miller:
Definitely. I would say same thing for people who are on the carnivore and very meat heavy diets is, just making sure that you balance out that high phosphate ratio with plenty of calcium in the diet as well.

Loren Delacruz:
Totally. Yeah, I think it's really possible to also do that on a plant-based diet too, because so many plants are high in phosphorous. Then you have the oxalates that make it really difficult to other phytic acid, other antinutrients that really need to be somewhat neutralized by properly preparing, which is definitely something that even that said, I see a lot of vegan proponents. Like say, "Oh antinutrients don't matter at all, don't worry about them, just eat the raw whenever." I'm just like, "Oh my gosh," because I've seen the damage done.

Loren Delacruz:
I wish I could have done like a hair tissue mineral analysis on myself after I was vegan or well during when I was vegan. I was vegan for a year and a half to two years in college as well.

Theresa Piela:
Wow!

Loren Delacruz:
Yeah, and it really wrecked me for a very long time just even after coming off of it. Yeah, I think it's really important and at that time I didn't really know how to prepare foods either.

Theresa Piela:
Yes.

Loren Delacruz:
It was mostly eating from the college cafeteria.

Theresa Piela:
Exactly.

Loren Delacruz:
I used to be like, what's vegan? Okay, all of these raw vegetables at the salad bar, that's what you ate and the tofu.

Theresa Piela:
Yeah. I guess, yeah.

Loren Delacruz:
Yeah. I mean there could have been more opportunity to properly prepare foods, but even some of the most I guess well known vegan proponents are like, "Yeah, don't worry about those, they are not real."

Theresa Piela:
To give them some credit, the don't worry about it, I think is valuable. Again, honoring that stress as depleting what we need to stay balanced, but I think there's a level of delusion and being real about your circumstances. Being very peacefully aware and proactively moving forward.

Loren Delacruz:
Oh yeah. I mean I wish I would have had a more of like a... I lost my period on the vegan diet.

Theresa Piela:
Normal, right? Normal.

Loren Delacruz:
Totally normal and in a way I was so uninformed that I was like, "Oh, this is great. I don't have to deal with my monthly menses." But looking back, one of the reasons I came off of it was like, "This is not good for me. I need my period. It's important." Yeah.

Jayton Miller:
I would say some of the tangible steps that I've accumulated over the years from breaking several bones and things like that, is to... I had a few broken bones. I've broken about three fingers during football, and then I've also had surgery on both of my feet because I had bones growing mis-directionally. During those times I was probably sleeping around 12 hours a day. I would make sure not to be in a calorie deficit as that's going to exacerbate the issue.

Theresa Piela:
Yup.

Jayton Miller:
I think that I was also... It's funny, I was reading a lot because I couldn't do anything. I didn't have my feet so it was the only thing that I can do. It was actually extremely peaceful so I noticed that the psychological part of it took care of itself with that.

Theresa Piela:
Wow!

Jayton Miller:
I'd also say that, just making sure that your protective hormones are balanced is very, very important. Making sure that along with the Vitamin A and the thyroid, you have plenty of cholesterol available to synthesis the pregnenolone into the other steroid hormones.

Jayton Miller:
Then just making sure that you eat foods that have bio available sources of calcium and magnesium and things like that. I think that's something that's very important, because a lot of the times vegetables can be dense in a lot of these minerals, but they're not available for the body to take up.

Theresa Piela:
Right.

Jayton Miller:
Just making sure that you get good sources and as far as supplementation, it is the carbonate form that you want to supplement with, correct?

Theresa Piela:
For the egg shell calcium or?

Jayton Miller:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Theresa Piela:
That's what... Oh, go ahead, Loren.

Loren Delacruz:
I know that, that's very popular in the pro-metabolic community, but I disagree.

Theresa Piela:
Oh yay, okay. I'm so glad we're talking about this then, because I know it's just like the Vitamin D debate. There's a lot of controversy, so great, I'm excited to listen.

Loren Delacruz:
Yeah, calcium carbonate is actually the calcium that you would give a reptile. Like if you ever owned a reptile, I haven't but that's the egg where you give a reptile. It takes 11 steps to convert or 11 conversion steps to make that calcium, I guess we would say calcium bicarbonate.

Loren Delacruz:
If we really truly need to supplement calcium, my preferred source is something like a whole food source. Like pro powder or yeah, pro powder or calcium lactate. Calcium lactate's going to be pretty easily absorbed, but that said, it's a really beautiful way to make the most of what... Of all of your food from nose to tail, you're really making use of the egg shells as well, which is a really nice way to get more from what you're creating.

Loren Delacruz:
I do think that it can be irritating for some people, because it's just so difficult to process, and so it could potentially create more stress especially if the person is in a more fragile state. I really like what you said, Jayton, because it's really important to make sure that you're in an anabolic state or at least supporting those anabolic hormones, and this is totally off topic from the calcium thing so I'm sorry.

Loren Delacruz:
If you think about catabolism, which is probably what got you there just a bone spontaneously breaks. Versus, of course, there were injuries and accidents like how you have experienced your shoulder issue, Theresa. Making sure that you're supporting your anabolism because anabolism is the building whereas catabolism is breaking down.

Loren Delacruz:
If you can get your progesterone, your thyroid, your DHEA up, that's going to be really supportive. That of course goes along with minimizing stress as much as possible, but sorry, it's a tangent. Yeah, calcium lactate is probably what I would do.

Theresa Piela:
Well that actually reminds me, that tangent was beautiful because again thinking about a lot of runners, the coaches tell them that it's normal to lose your period. That when you're at your ideal state, you're at a certain body weight, you may have lost your fertility, but not to worry about it. But you've just been thinking about how protective progesterone is to the bones, so we have layers upon layers that are leading us to dysfunction that we maybe are not even realizing.

Theresa Piela:
It's good to start to understand just the really simple ways of, "Oh okay, the body might need a little bit of this." Or, "Oh wow, just eating at a calorie excess for a bit could actually be very healing and therapeutic to our system," is a simple way to think about supporting the body.

Jayton Miller:
I've actually talked to several Olympic runners on the female Olympic team here in Boulder, and not a single one have their period. It's interesting because they're just constantly pushing their body to over that stress threshold, which they're phenomenon athletes, but as far as their everyday health, it was interesting to observe in some cases.

Loren Delacruz:
Yeah, athletes seem athletes, it's hard to balance the performance aspect and then the actual wellbeing aspect. It's easy to brush that stuff off, "Oh it's normal," but it really is important. That's why I think athletes, once they retire, everything starts going downhill really, really quickly.

Theresa Piela:
Yeah. What's sustainable? What isn't? I want to ask you both while we're on the topic about even just tissue and tendon and ligament health. Again, I think the calcium to phosphorous ratio feeds in, stress feeds in, but also some of these other building blocks may know... You mentioned colostrum and maybe we could dive into some of these more creative supplements or foods that can support overall tissue function.

Loren Delacruz:
Yeah. Well, I don't know if you want to dive in Jayton, but thinking about I guess supporting body parts, I like to think about it like gets like. I think that's why organ meats can come into such a, I guess a big role in healing.

Loren Delacruz:
That's why it's used in Chinese medicine, the thymus full, help a thymus, even... Oh gosh, what was I reading the other day? I think the Maori tribes, those are traditional cultures, the more untouched and this is in what Dr. Weston A. Price's research too. The Maori tribes would traditionally have a couple preparing to get married eat the testis and the ovaries of shark, which they would catch as like a preparation for I guess conception, because that would usually come really quickly after marriage in those tribes.

Loren Delacruz:
Yes, you consume the organ that you want to support and so in that sense, I would consume probably if I was trying to support ligaments, that's why bone broth is so important. You're taking the cartilaginous substances out of these bones and these trotters for example, pig trotters, chicken feet, those are all really rich in those same tissues. And so if you make broth out of them, you could eat them if you want. I know that pickled, what is it? Pickled chicken feet is like a delicacy somewhere.

Theresa Piela:
Yeah.

Loren Delacruz:
I don't know if I'm that brave, but I would definitely try it. Yeah, like supports like, so I don't know. That's how I would look at it and try to get really collagen rich, which is basically what the primary substance that makes this tendons and ligaments.

Loren Delacruz:
Make sure also though when you're looking at everything else, because if you're in a catabolic state, you're going to be breaking those tissues down to create energy. You're not going to be able to sustain those tissues, so making sure holistically looking at it as well. Yes, like gets like and that's what I would do.

Jayton Miller:
Definitely, so you mentioned that you're already doing the red light therapy. I think that that is a really good idea. I think maybe like a topical magnesium ointment on the joint would be really good from an inflammatory perspective.

Loren Delacruz:
That's a good idea.

Theresa Piela:
Yeah, that's a great idea.

Jayton Miller:
I would also try supplementing with glycine. I know that Saturated Official has a really good glycine supplement. There's a new guy, his name's [inaudible 00:40:47] on Instagram. He actually has a really good glycine supplement. NOW Foods glycine is pretty good, so supplementing with a little bit of extra glycine would be good.

Jayton Miller:
Then also as one of the preventative measures that I would take for some of the listeners would just be movement. Giving your bones a reason to be strong is very important, because if you don't use it, you lose it. I would just make sure to give your bones a reason to stay around by active verily just walking on a daily basis and getting your body around.

Jayton Miller:
Yeah, other than that, you did mention the BPC-157. I think that that is something worth researching and looking into for sure. Yeah, those are all the tips that come off to my mind that are action more right off the bat.

Theresa Piela:
Yeah, all things that have been floating around. The topical magnesium, now that's a great idea. Baths are great, but you can't do those easily throughout the day. I've even been exploring more just like soft tissue work, like self-massage and gentle Rolfin and trigger pointing techniques. Not to the point of pain at all, but just to help with blood flow and help free up the fascia because that's something that I didn't expect.

Theresa Piela:
I know a lot of people talk about fascia as if we have this entire suit, we're in a sock basically. You tighten one area and then somewhere else also tightens, as if we're just completely constricted so I'm finding new areas. Say I start working on my hip and then I'll have less pain in my shoulder, which is amazing to experience to such an intensity that I never realized before. In a way the...

Jayton Miller:
Thomas Myers actually talks a lot about fascial tissue. He talks about the calcification of fascial tissue and how to break up that calcification and stuff like that. He does a really good job. I've also seen some really interesting studies showing meditating on the healing of the specific area.

Theresa Piela:
Interesting.

Jayton Miller:
I don't remember exactly the statistical significance of the studies, but I do know that the ones who actually took time to meditate and within their minds pictured the tissues coming back together and healing strong, had a shorter healing period. I would definitely say to work that into your meditative practice if you have one.

Theresa Piela:
That makes sense to me in terms of lowering stress and just positive outcomes and thinking about the cascade of protective hormones again. When we believe when we're sending, I mean without sounding too wooey but good energy there. I'm sure even the potential of the brain to say, "Oh okay, she's thinking about that, we should put some more blood flow there. Put some more nutrients there," so it makes sense to me.

Theresa Piela:
I like thinking of these simple things we can do beyond having to see another expert or get another scan, or worse case scenario get snipped. That makes me think of testicle snipping, but I mean in terms of surgery, that's something I've been really trying to avoid so all of these tips are beautiful.

Loren Delacruz:
Awesome. One more thing too, this is I guess harder to control. I think it has more long-term effects than immediate effects, so maybe it wouldn't apply to this situation. Dr. Stephanie Seneff talks a lot about how glyphosate, which is a herbicide. She believes that, or I guess one of the reasons people are experiencing more bone issues than ever before, I don't know how true that is, but I would imagine that we're having a lot of bone issues. We're having a lot of issues as a society in general.

Loren Delacruz:
She talks about how glyphosate will swap glycine for alanine, I think it's alanine, so it's a less structurally sound... Your bones are becoming less structurally sound if you're consuming high glyphosate content foods. It's difficult to regulate that because it's just pervasive and it can be found in water, and so water filtrations and aspect of things.

Loren Delacruz:
Not everyone can buy organic, but it's also important because glyphosate [inaudible 00:45:39] copper, which is essential for regulating iron. It can compound the osteoporotic effects that iron can have on bone. I don't know, it's just another consideration and of course, overwhelmed figure out what you want to focus on because...

Theresa Piela:
I'll take it all.

Loren Delacruz:
You need to be able to get overwhelmed and be like, "Oh my God, I have to do all these things." But focus on one or two and then as you master those things, take on another one if you feel like it. I think keeping the stress low is the most important thing. Yeah, I think that's worth saying because we just come in contact with that kind of stuff now all the time.

Theresa Piela:
What a metaphor too thinking about how we treat the earth we live in and are clearly showing, or we are seeing our structures really falling apart in terms of society not being supportive to our health. Here we are with a lot of people, a lot of young people with pretty serious, I don't want to say health issues, but kind of. I think a lot of people are far sicker than they realize even, or as super young and already have this level of diagnosis or a certain number of diagnosis and autoimmune conditions.

Theresa Piela:
I think yeah, glycine is another one of these wonderful things to help even bind to the glyphosate. I haven't looked at too many of the studies, but it seems like a promising way to help get it out of the body if we are unnecessarily exposed.

Loren Delacruz:
Yeah, glycine's really important for detoxification, especially of those chemicals or exogenous chemicals. Yes, it will benefit, not only for bone health, bone repair, but also detoxification.

Jayton Miller:
If this opens up a can of worms, it's too big, let me know. But one of the things that I've been thinking about and I would be curious as to what your opinions are on it, is the healing effects of touch just in general. What do you all think of that specifically?

Loren Delacruz:
[crosstalk 00:48:00].

Theresa Piela:
[crosstalk 00:48:00] oh go ahead, go ahead.

Loren Delacruz:
Oh you go for it, Theresa.

Theresa Piela:
Well, I'm so glad you asked because I was just talking to my husband about this. I feel like of anything I'm doing right now, that's been the most helpful first in terms of lowering stress. Well maybe just first and yeah, that feeling of when stress lowers almost immediately. But when someone has good intention too and they care about you and they love you, I'm sure we'll start to be able to measure this more.

Theresa Piela:
Even just honoring ancient wisdom and ancient healing techniques, I feel like there's been that awareness that being touched matters. Even just thinking about some of the studies with kids in orphanages that are not touched and they have very different developmental stories and even their heads look different I think... Correct me if I'm wrong, but their heads are much, much bigger, and of course the cognitive behavioral development is shifted.

Theresa Piela:
Coming back to even cuddling with an animal that you love or the power of a hug to up regulate some of those protective hormones and flood the body with those warm and fuzzies for a lack of a better word, I think is so helpful on... Yeah, I feel very lucky to be living with someone that I love and that loves me. Because every once in a while I'll go interrupt in between a call or something and just ask for some gentle touch, so I think it's a big piece of it too. Maybe will even allow for just speedier healing, retaining those minerals, not burning through my magnesium so quickly.

Loren Delacruz:
Yeah, I haven't done research on that specifically, but there is something to be said about how our parents and when we were younger... I know that might not be the case for everyone, but their touch is such a relief or it can be. That's how they've taught us to self, well sooth even when we were babies, that's what you do. You pick the baby up and you rock them, and you teach them how to self-sooth.

Loren Delacruz:
I have a friend that's a therapist and I know that during this, I guess earlier in the quarantine when we really couldn't see a lot of people, it's getting a little better now. But for those people living alone, she would recommend going to the least get a massage once every couple weeks because that touch is so important.

Loren Delacruz:
Just physical human touch, if it's not on Maslow's hierarchy of needs, it probably should be. I don't know if it is, but there's just something so healing about it and so soothing that I think it really matters.

Theresa Piela:
I want to check the pyramid now because I feel like that should be with food, shelter, water. Yeah, just thinking about how critical that is and seeing what happens when we don't have healing touch or just loving touch or just touch in general. I feel like maybe even neutral touch could be beneficial.

Loren Delacruz:
Yeah.

Jayton Miller:
We tested on this a minute ago. Yesterday I read The Four Agreements. I think it was Don Ruiz.

Theresa Piela:
Don Ruiz, yeah.

Jayton Miller:
I believe so.

Theresa Piela:
Yeah.

Jayton Miller:
He talks about, the first agreement is impeccability of the word and he was talking a lot about, we can cast spells or curses on people with our words or on ourselves with our own intentions and the way that we speak to ourselves. I think that the perspective that you take with your healing journey is very, very important.

Jayton Miller:
Whenever something out of the blue just happens like this, is to realize that it happens to everyone. It's going to happen inevitably if you are doing something that is probably worth doing anyways.

Theresa Piela:
Yeah.

Jayton Miller:
My weakness is skiing or riding my motorcycle. I know that with skiing specifically, I mean I have a few tweaks and tears because of it, but I just look at it as it's part of the process. It's not really something that I'm willing to give up either, so I have to be as positive as I can while I'm taking part in it at least.

Loren Delacruz:
That's amazing.

Theresa Piela:
Yeah, that actually makes me think of our last conversation, but really mindset is so important because if we're doing all of these beautiful things but setting off a constant stressor, we're depleting ourselves unknowingly. I think bringing more attention to what we do have control over, which is how we perceive things, how we choose to grow from things.

Theresa Piela:
Even just feeling empowered that we have the choice to expand and by doing fun and maybe dangerous things we'll be learning in the process, so always a chance to get some perspective.

Loren Delacruz:
Totally, I would agree. I think mindset's probably the biggest challenge of all, so the more you can play that game with yourself and really get yourself in a good space and self-acceptance, all that good stuff that you might need to go through is so important.

Theresa Piela:
Yeah.

Jayton Miller:
Definitely. Well, I want to be respective of both of your time. I'm super grateful for both of you all hopping on here today. I enjoy our conversations immensely, so thank you all again. For all those who are listening, make sure to go check them out on Instagram, their websites, stuff like that. Do you all want to give a little plug really quick?

Theresa Piela:
Sure. Yeah. Living Root Wellness on Instagram and also livingrootwellness.com, so pretty easy to find. Theresa Piela's my name.

Loren Delacruz:
Awesome and then Loren Delacruz and my Instagram is Innate Functional Nutrition and innate is spelled, I-N as in Nancy, N as in Nancy, A-T-E just in case. Although maybe it's Nancy if you watch Archer. Then innate-nutrition.com.

Jayton Miller:
Awesome. Well all make sure to go check them out and we'll talk next time.

Jayton Miller:
Thanks for listening to the podcast. If you haven't already, make sure to hit the like button, subscribe, and leave a comment down below if you want us to cover a different topic.

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